FINAL EXAM
Are you fed up with empty-headed, high-minded preachers who think nothing of correcting the AV1611 King James Bible with their mysterious special knowledge of Greek and Hebrew? If so, would you like to put them to a test? Here’s how!
At the top of the column on the right is a translation feature. Among the many languages this blog can be quickly translated into are; you guessed it; Greek and Hebrew. Now with two clicks on the key board you can translate and print this article and others into ancient Bible languages that seem to be in vogue these days. Now you can challenge preachers and others with special knowledge of the “original languages” to translate this and other posts from Greek or Hebrew into English . I will give you three guesses about the outcome and the first two don’t count. That’s right, they will be stumped on the first paragraph.
Modern Greek and Hebrew scholars will be forced to admit that their corrections of the King James Bible come from unreliable lexicons and a Strong’s Concordance written by apostate Christians and unbelievers.
Man a whole room full of amigodana’s we will need months and a good supply of asprin andblots of prayer
They must be shimmying for Jesus at the Rock
Seriously? First you call me an apostate – have we ever met? I assume I’m regarded as an apostate because I do not fully agree with you. Well, the news is brother that God has the right to call me an apostate if I do not agree with Him. But you? Secondly, what whipping? Put forward a credible argument, challenge what I have said, but resort to babyish insults?
Jeremy: Where? Bro. Ray
I provided you with images of an original 1611 KJV, as Annonymous mentioned. Feel free to use it to find proof of your claims about the apocrypha.
Jeremy: A better site than this, surely you jest!! Stop saying things like that someone might take you seriously. Bro. Ray
There was an even better site than this that I found one time where you could flip through the digital pages, but I can’t seem to find it now. This one’s still quite good, though – it has photocopies of each page, as best I can tell – http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/
Anonymous: Do you have an original AV1611 to prove your point? Did you see one or borrow one? Well? Bro. Ray
Charles: I approved your comment so you could show my readers how ignorant and apostate you are. Read the opening statements of the translators to see whom they dedicated their work to. And as for their loyalty to the pope, they hated and abhorred the Roman Catholic Church. As for their translation they said it was one more EXACT TRANSLATION OF THE WORD OF GOD. Bro. Ray
Jezz1966: You and your posse of apostates are whining like you got a whipping, why is that? You got a whipping son. Bro. Ray
Thanks for responding Ray. If you notice, the opening sentence of my post is a quotation from you. They’re not my words, but yours. I was interested to see what you regarded as an “intellectual whipping”, but I guess you postponed that for another time.
So the Greek/Hebrew test wasn’t a test at all? Either very subtle strategy or a misunderstanding of your own argument, I guess.
Yes, of course I may learn something, I have that capacity and openness. You however, I’m beginning to suspect not.
Father Jezz
Your claim has no historical basis. You do realize the KJV was dedicated to Pope Leo? Educate yourself friend.
So you believe that God has the power to preserve them, but only through an Elizabethan era bible?
It’s moot point, not “mute” point. And just because you believe that the KJV is the only bible does not negate the historical fact that it is simply a translation. The editors of the KJV themselves fully admitted that their work was simply a translation of the text. Why do you claim any different?
Ummm…Yes they were. They were not located within the margins, or addressed as history books. Do you have an original 1611? Of course you do not. They are incredibly rare.
You can however view photocopies of original 1611’s however, all containing the Apocrypha. Before you start spouting off information you have been told, educate yourself with a simple google image search.
Dwayne, you say spelling changes nothing, yet your very own definition of “pure” indicates that it does, since the “pure” KJV must be ““Free from anything of a different … kind,” as well as ““Being that and NOTHING else.” [emphasis added] Changing the spelling makes it of a different kind, as well as being something else – not NOTHING else. Do you want to change your definition of pure, or argue that every jot and tittle doesn’t really matter – that God’s pure word can, in fact, change?
Please show me where, in the original 1611 printing of the KJV, the apocrypha is listed as anything other than the canon (one N). Show me where the translators said it was just historical. Please provide a direct quote with citation of where you found it. Because I read the entire introduction, and the word “apocrypha” didn’t even occur, and the only place where a form of “historical” occurred was in a very different context not referring to these books.
Dwane: These reprobates seemed to be cowering in a corner of unbelief somewhere. OOPS! I judged wrong, perhaps they are taking a “PRAISE BREAK”. Bro. Ray
The scriptures were out there. God preserved them. Real believers has good translation they copied and cherished while hiding them from the Murderous Catholic thugs. They did not have to be preserved in one Book all through those years to be preserved. God has the power to take care of His Scriptures. That vs 7 you posted is not from the KJV so it is a mute point. Whatever you got it out of- Junk it!
Updating spelling changes nothing. Talk about grasping at straws. And the apocrypha was included between the testaments as historical books. They were not considered part of the cannon and were not intermingled with the Bible books themselves. Weak.
So tell me Dwayne, before 1611 did we have a pure bible? Also, do you know anything of plenary inspiration? Oh and before I’m through, do you honestly believe that David was writing about the KJV bible? There seems to be a lot of proof-texting here. Especially since the passage is not correctly interpreted:
7 You, O Lord, will keep them;
you will guard us[b] from this generation forever.
Maybe I can get some educated answers from you, because honestly I’m not entirely sure Ray isn’t mentally retarded.
A few observations, Dwane –
1, even if your definition(s) of “pure” is accurate, your interpretation of those verses may not be correct.
2, the KJV has changed a lot over the years – the original publication had spelling that is significantly different from the one available in most places today. In addition, it contained the apocrypha (without any sort of special delineation as mere history, despite what some sources claim), which must, therefore, be part of God’s pure word, according to your argument. Therefore, according to your own standards, the KJV that Bro. Ray has been quoting every time thus far is a false Bible, and only the one originally published in 1611, with its divergent spellings and apocrypha, is God’s pure word.
Something to consider is the word Pure. God said in (Prov.30:5) that “Every word of God is Pure”. And in (Ps.119:14)) “Thy word is Very Pure”. And (Ps.12:6) “The words of the Lord are Pure Words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times. Then in (Ps.12:7)”Thou shalt Keep them, O Lord, Thou shalt Preserve Them form this generation for ever.” Clearly God said He would give us His Pure Words and then Preserve His Pure Words. Now the word “Pure” means: “Free from anything of a different, inferior, or contaminating kind”, and “Being that and nothing else.” Thus for a Bible to be Pure, by definition, that Bible would have to consist of nothing but God’s exact inspired and preserved words. One word in the entire Book that wasn’t Purely from the mouth of God would taint the entire Book. That Book-Bible would not be Pure, much less Very Pure. For God to be true to His word the KJV must be Perfect. If it is not then one of the other translations has to be or God is a liar. Chew on that a while. It is an undeniable fact, or the 3 verses I started with are all wrongly using the word Pure. Look the word up in any dictionary. Pure must be All of whatever substance it is without any trace of anything else. God is not a man that He should lie. God by nature would not leave us without a Pure Bible. Not with eternity hanging in the balance.
Charles: That’s “What a thing MAN. Bro. Ray
Charles: That’s “What a thing MAN. Bro. Ray
Ray, I refuse to take your quiz until you answer at least 1 question I have asked you. Come on now, look back at all the questions I have asked, and you have yet to answer.
Also, do not try to hide the fact that I just corrected you with the 1611. To use your words, “what a thing, what a thing!”
RobM: guffaws, is that Koine English? Bro. Ray
Charles: Be quiet, people are trying to take a QUIZ. I suggest you get started on yours, it’s on the front page. Bro. Ray
Yes the foolishness that comes out of the admin’s keyboard is top notch foolishness, and good for many hearty guffaws.
Ray, I am a little confused. You quoted James 5:6-7, but my 1611 KJV bible reads differently than yours. I am a little concerned that you are not using the text you so adamantly defend.
This is how the text reads friend. How embarrassing!
5 If any of you lacke wisedome, let him aske of God, that giueth to all men liberally, and vpbraideth not: and it shalbe giuen him.
6 But let him aske in faith, nothing wauering: for he that wauereth is like a waue of the sea, driuen with the wind, and tossed.
Charles: Yes you are in for a treat. But first I must apologize to you and all my Bible students who took the Greek and Hebrew 101 The Test, silly me I forgot to give you your QUIZ first! You will get another chance on the TEST, but first allow me to give you the Greek and Hebrew QUIZ to prepare you to take the TEST again. All the previous grades are thrown out and YOU can take the test again later. Fair enough? The QUIZ can be found right after MENTAL MOPHINE on my home page. Hope you and yours make the grade. Bro. Ray
We are in for a real treat, I’m sure. :)
Just so I can understand clearly, (because I am a little lost on the issue trying to keep up with you all) Ray are you saying that if the Bible needed to be translated into another language of those who have not the scripture in their native tongue; that it would translated from the English speakers AV 1611 or the Masoretic text of the old testament and the majority text of the new?
Thanks
Anonymous: I must go back to work now, but I will get back to you on this. All the intellectuals will learn something. Bro. Ray
C.C.: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask God, that giveth to all men, liberally, and upbraideth not: and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering… James1: 5,6
I will openly admit that I am in desperate need of wisdom. :)
C.C. Glad I could cheer your day. Bro. Ray P.S. Keep reading you will learn something.
Jezz1966: Did that whipping happen yet? I didn’t feel a thing. As for identifying those who claim to know Greek and Hebrew, mums the word-sshh. I didn’t fail the Hebrew and Greek exam because I knew better than to take it. That’s called honesty and wisdom. Hang in there my intellectual friend, you can learn something. Bro. Ray
Do you believe that the Holy Spirit should be called and “IT” like your KJV does in 4 different places? John 1:32, Rom 8:16, Rom 8:26 & 1 Pet 1:11, there is only ONE modern PERVERSION that goes along with your favorite translation, that is the wicked Jehovah’s Witnesss New World Translation, that’s not real good company!
Tiarali: Yes the apocryhpha was include between the Old and New Testaments to be used as history books and were not esteemed as scripture. Munch like the writings of Josephus the Jewish historian. Bro. Ray
Haha! What is actually funny about this whole exchange, is that the admin somehow believes that he is making solid and Scriptural ‘comebacks’ to Charles. This was enjoyable to read, guys.
“I left a post over at thingsfundieslike, I told them you were over here getting the rebuke and intellectual whipping of your life.”
Dear Ray, I am an intellectual. Please, it is only embarrassing for the both of us when you make that claim for yourself. Would you be so kind as to keep your self-aggrandizement within reach of your actual abilities.
You issue a challenge in your post – a worthwhile one in my opinion – to use the button at the top as a translation test for so called Greek and Hebrew scholars. This way you will clearly identify all those people who claim to be skilled at translating modern Greek or Hebrew into English. As a preacher, with a working knowledge of Koine Greek (please excuse my Hebrew), I would fail your test because, as you undoubtedly know, ancient Greek and Hebrew are vastly different from their modern forms and the ability to understand one does not infer the ability to understand the other. A colleague of mine – Professor of Greek at a distinguished University – won’t even allow his students to study Koine Greek – it’s just too crude and educates them in too many bad habits. God can certainly use the crude things of this world to declare His glory. You, however, fail the FINAL EXAM. Zero out of ten. You don’t even qualify for a retake!
The AV 1611 contained the apocrypha. I’m pretty sure the author of this blog does not read a bible that contains the apocrypha, despite claiming to read the AV 1611. If he just means that he reads a modern KJV, then why doesn’t he say so?
Charles my son: I do know something about your parents, they are disappointed in your ecumenical endeavors. I left a post over at thingsfundieslike, I told them you were over here getting the rebuke and intellectual whipping of your life. I suggest you scurry over with the like minded reprobates. Bro. Ray
Ray, I do not have to prove anything to you. Especially since you cannot answer any of my questions. I do find it hilarious that you refer to yourself as the “cruel messenger”, and then you accuse anonymous of prooftexting. :)
Also, I am not your son. And you know nothing of my parents. You do not even know my age. You have assumed wrongly about a great many things. (Especially the charismatic stuff. I don’t know why you have such hatred for those who worship God differently than you.)
You are an idolater. You choose to believe what you want to believe, without any reason at all. Despite all of the evidence against you, you willfully choose to believe a lie. I have checked out the biblebelievers website that you have referred everyone to. Now I ask you to be respectful and check these videos out. I doubt you have the courage to do so however. Good evening.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNGa_dRTNMo
Charles, Charles my boy, you should know better. A portion of scripture taken out of context is a PRE-TEXT. Amen? Amen and Amen. Come on charley say Amen. Bro. Ray
Upset yet. The AV1611 teaches that an evil man seeketh rebellion and a CRUEL MESSENGER SHALL BE SENT AGAINST HIM. I’m that cruel messenger, Bro. Ray
Charles Stover: I did not ask you to ask me a question, son. I asked you to give me the plan of salvation using scripture quotes without looking at the Bible (AV1611) or your perversion of the scriptures and you could do neither. I certainly hope your father and mother don’t see you spouting this nonsense. The way of the transgressor is hard, according to scripture (AV1611 of course). Charles did I hit a nerve?, are you a silly hyper-charismatic? werEYOubuZZEdagaINinSTeadofBEINgborNAgaiN and Helamashandiuntieabowtie that’s tongues for did you lose your mind after rebelling against your parents? You had about 23 minutes and you could not only not preach and quote enough scripture to save yourself, you could not even look it up line upon line and precept upon precept to save yourself and your house. Shame on you! Before you jump to any conclusions I do not speak in unknown tongues, I was only mocking those who do. Bro. Ray
Quoted from anynonmyous above
Do you believe that Jesus was dead when hung on the cross? That’s what your favorite translation indicates at Acts 5:30!
When your daughter when out on her first date did you tell her to have a good time and “be careful for nothing” as the KJV tells us to?
Do you also “wonder with great ADMIRATION” that wicked mother of harlots that is drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus? As the KJV says the Apostle John was?
You do a lot of assuming Ray, and no answering. You know what happens when we assume, don’t ya Ray?
I would highly advise that you delete this blog post, along with the comments with it. You are unknowingly proving yourself to be a fool. Your logic, assumptions,and condemnations all prove that you are not a son of God.
Also, I think I made myself very clear by saying I was a believer of Christ. You know, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? Unless you are referring to another christ, which would make you an anti-christ. Alas, I do not think you thought that statement through. It seems that in your feeble minded attempt to insult me, you once again made yourself look like a fool.
Would you like for me to go through the “Roman Road” plan of salvation for ya Ray? I’m sure you have scores of tracts with those verse on them. I do wonder though, how many people have you honestly scared into heaven by condemning people on the streets? Tell me about your fruit Ray.
Charles: What was the question again? Bro. Ray
Charles: I’m sure the Pope and the ecumenical movement are very pleased with you and your watered down ESV. How big is your God, Charles, is he bigger than the Lord Jesus Christ? Seems as though you can through Christ around as a term but are hesitant to mention the name that is above every other name to which you and I will bow to some day. Go ahead and try saying it my ecumenical friend. J-E-S-U-S come on now one consonant and vowel at a time. Do you love that name Charles? Say it out loud, practice, you will need it. When you prayed to God for me, did you pray that I would forsake THE BOOK (AV1611)? God don’t hear nonsense like that!
That last paragraph finally revealed who you are and what your problem is sonny. YOU ARE REBEL since childhood. Must have broke your families heart to see you leave the paths of righteousness to follow ecumenical reprobates.I guess and this is only a guess, mind you. You attend a church with all the bells and whistles, maybe a hyper charismatic one with a praise band. Again just guessing. Do you suppose you were just buzzed-again on “christian rock” and not truly born-again? Think, Charles, this is important eternal stuff we’re talking about. Ask yourself, can you love the Saviour, Jesus Christ and despise his word (AV1611)? How does this make your parents feel, Charles, when they rased you right and you went the opposite direction and call their sound doctrine and church nonsense? Don’t blame your short comings and rebellions on the AV1611 Holy Bible. One thing you did say correctly, “I was not saved then”, do a check up from the neck up my cyber friend and do your first works over to see if you truly are save. Here’s another test, don’t you just hate that. Quick without looking tell me how to be saved by quoting not copying Bible verses that you are trusting all eternity for. QUICK NO LOOKING! Bro. Ray
Answer the question Ray.
No, my brain is nearly fried from all of the nonsense you have posted. Why don’t you educate yourself with a simple google search of “Westcott & Hort.” Also, I use the ESV which is based off the Nestle-Aland texts, but nice try. You have been brainwashed my friend. My God is much bigger than yours. Honestly, I do not see how a person can conduct a website in such a manner, and still call themselves a Christian; much less a minister.
And do not think yourself persecuted, please. You are simply trying being educated by true believers in Christ. Not men and women who hold to “Jesus+ the KJV.”
I grew up in a home and church that taught the nonsense you mindlessly proclaim on this website. I was not saved then. I pray to God that He would remove the pride from your life that has so easily blinded you.
Anonymous: Your revealing yourself as the fool of The Book of Proverbs in the AV1611 of course.
Jeremy: Leave Charles alone. He is busy frying his ecumenical brain coming up with his own blasphemy for the answers I gave him earlier. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: Leave Charles alone. He is busy frying his ecumenical brain coming up with his own blasphemy for the answers I gave him earlier. Bro. Ray
Anonymous: Careful, you’re exposing yourself as the fool spoken of in the Book of Proverbs in God’s translation. People are realizing who you are. Go ahead blaspheme some more, DAMNATION IS COMING!! Not YOUR brother, Bro. Ray
Do you believe that Jesus was dead when hung on the cross? That’s what your favorite translation indicates at Acts 5:30!
When your daughter when out on her first date did you tell her to have a good time and “be careful for nothing” as the KJV tells us to?
Do you also “wonder with great ADMIRATION” that wicked mother of harlots that is drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus? As the KJV says the Apostle John was?
Charles, you’re spot-on about my point concerning the gospel. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Charles: The answer to your first two questions is NO. And now I would not accept a Pauline manuscript that was tampered with. That is why I do not and cannot accept the modern perversions of scripture that are translated from the Westcott and Hort Text. Westcott and Hort were both unsaved followers of Madam Blavastky, a Satanist. Both were unsaved baby sprinklers. Both were drunkards and at least one was a queer. You are wrong son. The translators said they had one more EXACT TRANSLATION OF GODS WORD. I understand exactly what Jeremy saying, he is twisting my words to hide his own unbelief of the Holy Scriptures (AV1611). My claim that modern translations seek to remove the deity of Jesus Christ is based upon a word by word, verse by verse comparison of the AV1611 with your preferred per-version. My claim is based comparison. You my boy are the one who is willfully ignorant!!! Your friend Ray because I doubt we are brothers, you see God is my daddy, who’s your spiritual daddy?
Ray, would you keep those verses in your bible if you knew they were added after the manuscripts were written?
Would you accept a Pauline manuscript knowing that someone other than Paul tampered with a sentence here or there? Or would you desire to have the original, word for word letter?
We do not have the original manuscripts. But we do have manuscripts that predate the ones used by the KJV translators by many centuries. The KJV translators themselves argued that there work was never inspired by God. They never once claimed to have the inerrant full proof, word for word translation given by God.
If they don’t, then why do you? Also, I don’t think you are understanding what Jeremy is trying to say about adding to the gospel. It’s by grace and grace alone we are saved, not grace+the kjv.
To claim that the more modern translations seek to remove the deity of Christ is based on superstition and ignorance.
Charles: Check with Jeremy on the most recent four verses I gave him from Luke. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: Your soul is worth another try. What happens when you leave out or change these four verses? Bro. Ray
LUKE
1:28–(BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN) is out.
2:33–(JOSEPH) is changed to father.
2:43–(JOSEPH AND HIS MOTHER) is changed to parents.
4:4 –(BUT BY EVERY WORD OF GOD) is out
Could not have said it better myself. Thanks Jeremy.
Not a single one of those will condemn a person though their omission – omissions which are present in older and, arguably, better Greek manuscripts than what the KJV’s NT is translated from.
So no, not enough already. I need a verse in the KJV that says the KJV is necessary for salvation.
Here are a few reasons I know that the wrong Bible perversin can lead to Hell. There are many more examples of how new age bibles twist the scriptures. Enough already? Bro. Ray
MATTHEW
1:25–(FIRSTBORN) is out. Speaking of the Lord Jesus.
5:44–(BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU) is out.
6:13–(KINGDOM, POWER, GLORY) is out.
6:27–(STATURE) is changed to span of life.
6:33–(OF GOD) is out. Referring to the kingdom–
8:29–(JESUS) is out. As Son of God.
9:13–(TO REPENTANCE) is out. Calling sinners–
12:35–(OF THE HEART) is out. Good treasure–
12:47–(VERSE IS OUT) About Christ’s mother.
13:51–(JESUS SAID UNTO THEM and LORD) is out.
15:8 –(DRAWETH UNTO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH) is out.
16:3 –(O YE HYPOCRITES) is out.
16:20–(JESUS) is out.
17:21–(VERSE IS OUT). About prayer and fasting.
18:11–(VERSE IS OUT). Tells Jesus came to save.
19:9 –(LAST 11 WORDS ARE OUT). About adultery.
19:17–(GOD) is out. None good but (God).
20:7 –(WHATSOEVER IS RIGHT RECEIVE) is out.
20:16–(MANY BE CALLED BUT FEW CHOSEN) is out.
20:22–(BAPTIZED WITH CHRIST’S BAPTISM) is out.
21:44–(VERSE IS OUT) About Christ the stone.
23:14–(VERSE IS OUT) Woe scribes and hypocrites.
25:13–(WHEREIN THE SON OF MAN COMETH) is out.
27:35–(FULFILLED SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET) is out.
27:54–(THE SON OF GOD) is A SON of God.
28:2 –(FROM THE DOOR) is out.
28:9 –(THEY WENT TO TELL HIS DISCIPLES) is out.
And here I was thinking you weren’t replying to me anymore. Pleased to see you changed your mind. I do wish you would read my posts more carefully, though – I never said the Geneva Bible was the first of anything, just that it predated the KJV.
I have, in fact, read both the Geneva and Wycliffe translations. I find them very readable, thanks.
Also, nobody here is attacking the KJV. What we are attacking is the idolatrous notion that the KJV is the only acceptable Bible for the English-speaking world – a notion you have twisted into a heretical perversion of the gospel, since you claim anyone who disagrees with you on this matter is damned. Or, as you put it, “This is a life and death issue. ETERNAL LIFE AND DEATH.”
It seems the anti- AV1611 blasphemers are beside themselves when faced with truth. One commented that the Geneva Bible was the first in the English language as we know it. I wonder if he ever tried to read the Geneva or Wynclife Bibles? Guess not or he would not have made such a ridiculous mistake. Think about this, why is the AV1611 the only version of scripture attacked by liberals?
Bro. Ray
You may want to take your academic pursuits more seriously, Ray. You claimed, “The AV1611 was the first translation into the English language as we know it.” Yet the historical facts vary significantly. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Bible “The Geneva Bible is one of the most historically significant translations of the Bible into the English language, preceding the King James translation by 51 years.”
Also, please, please, please tell me you don’t think that biblical scholars and textual critics’ pursuit of the oldest and best manuscripts refers to the English manuscripts.
Charles: I worship the God of the Bible. I come to him through his Son. The Liberals always try and go back to the oldest and best manuscripts, so they say. The AV1611 was the first translation into the English language as we know it. Using the liberals standards it (the AV1611) is the oldest and most read. All new per-version bibles attempt to take away word by word and verse by verse the diety of Jesus Christ the Son of God and out Saviour. New-age bibles change doctrine and agree with the antichrist pope of Rome. Study my boy, study. I’m a graduate of a Baptist college along with other educational pursuits and I have found that nothing can clear up the fog of a seminary education like an AV1611 King James Bible. Get one, read, study, and believe it. I have not made Christians look like anything but Christians with my blog and you stand out so well now because the light of the AV1611 is shining on YOU! As for Greg and Jeremy, you have to admit they fuss like an out of control female preacher. Go to Terry Watkins site http://www.biblebelievers.com for a great study of the AV1611 Bible and the counterfits (anything in English sinse 1611 A.D.). Need more. Check out Peter S. Ruckman or Gail Riplinger’s books on the subject. Glad I could help, Bro. Ray
Ray, do you worship God or a translation of Gods word? What makes the 1611 the final authority? Why has it become the standard?
I don’t know why I bother asking you these things, because you will respond with insults such as “SODOMITE” “QUEER” and “LIBERAL!”
You are an uneducated, unbelieving stain on the American churches backside. Thanks for making the disciples of Christ look like morons.
Jeremy: Reasoning with You, like Greg, is like trying to reason with a Queer at a Sodomite parade. Why don’t you get his email address and chat with him a while? Get it out of your system. Bro. Ray
Is that 1611 English for, “I’m taking my ball and going home,”? Ray, you’re preaching a false gospel, adding “and read only the KJV” onto God’s requirement of grace – which he freely gives. We’re not the heretics here.
Greg: I asked you to read Titus 3:10,11. Trying to reason with you is like arguing with a queer at a
Sodomite Parade. I’M DONE WITH YOU. sincerely, Ray
I compare you with Catholicism because you are taking what the KJV translators say as what God says. It is exactly the same as not studying the original languages to learn for yourself what God has said. You are essentially the same as the Catholic sitting under the authority of a priest. I study the original languages because I wanted to assure myself of God’s revelation which is, like you said above, “a life and death issue.”
Just believing the KJV translation because someone told you it is the best is lazy (a sin) and foolish (a sin). Be able to back up English translations by working and studying God’s Word. Who told you the KJV was the best? Where did they study the languages to find out it was? Who were their teachers?
One more question: do you believe the King James Version (AV1611/4th edition) is inspired?
Greg: I “studies” too, The AV1611 King James Holy Bible, you know the scriptures. Bro. Ray P.S. You need FINAL AUTHORITY IN YOUR LIFE. The Catholics already have control of you, they reject the AV1611 and are the driving force behind the perverted translations. Bro. Ray But I’m not your brother because we don’t have the same spiritual daddy. You are of your father the devil and the works of your father you will do sonny. Satan has always said the same thing you are saying, “HATH GOD SAID?”
Greg: Please read my response to Jeremy, the same goes for you. Titus 3:10,11.
Jeremy: I must obey my AV166 Bible now. Titus 3:10,11 tells me, “A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject: Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. I’ve spent far too much time on you already and must repent. If Ms. Riplinger cannot convince you, you’re done. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: Please study a while longer. Bro. Ray
Again, you’re making assumptions about my heart – something only God is allowed to do. I’m not bringing this up to my pastor because his job is pastoring, not getting involved in online discussions like this.
Also, if you believe whether someone reads the KJV or NIV or NASB or what-have-you determines one’s eternal destiny, you are preaching a false gospel.
Now, will you let me take your special test or not?
I agree that the KJV doesn’t need to be fixed. It’s a fine translation – one of many fine translations. I don’t believe it’s the best (especially since it includes some highly questionable passages, most notably the Johannine Comma), but it’s certainly one of the ways God communicates his perfect word to the English-speaking world.
Could you please define “substantially different”? As a student of the Bible who has done a lot of reading in many versions, I have not noticed any significant differences between the major versions – certainly nothing to distort essential doctrines.
You make too many assumptions about me, sir. I fully believe that the Bible (or more correctly, God through the Bible) is the final authority in my life. I don’t believe this requires there to be only one acceptable English version, and I challenge you to find one area in my life that would be different if I were, like you, a KJVO-er.
Also, I’ve read Ms. Riplinger’s work before, in “New Age Bible Versions.” As an academic, I found it repulsive both in tone and scholarship. So, I will decline your suggestion.
Excuse me: *studied.
Actually, I can. I studies under men who read straight from the original languages for 2 years. I don’t try to correct anything, I just want to study to show myself approved. I don’t want to be a Catholic, and only hear what someone else tells me God’s Word is saying. I guess that is where you and I differ.
Lori: You’re right there is a lot more to translation. That’s why we can’t trust the NIV because at least one of the translators is a flaming female queer who thinks she can still have conversations with her dead mother. What a thing man, what a thing!
Jeremy: You can’t make sense of them in 5th and 6th Grade Engilsh (AV1611
Jeremy: This is a life and death issue. ETERNAL LIFE AND DEATH. Ask him, don’t be an ecumenical sissy. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: I think your afraid to ask him to take the test. You want mans praise so bad you are afraid.
Time to man up. Don’t be so compromising. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: What is clear is this, Your preacher, nor others are qualified to fix the AV1611 which does not need fixed. Since God gave us the 1611 there have been over 200 plus perversions of the scriptures in English. Every one of them is substantially different from the AV1611 and just as different from one another. Now that’s a mess! Right? Your problem is this, you cannot tolerate a FINAL AUTHORITY in your life. Your are your own god and God to you is a figment of your imagination and the false gods of the new versions. Gail Riplinger has a book titled “IN AWE OF THY WORD”. May I suggest you read and study. Bro. Ray
My point is, your test is meaningless because the languages you can translate this blog into don’t have the same syntax or sentence structure as English, so even if someone was fluent in modern (as opposed to Koine) Greek or modern (as opposed to ancient) Hebrew, they still may not be able to make good sense of it because the “translation” wouldn’t convey the original meaning of your English words.
Is that any more clear?
My pastor is a little too busy with, ya’ know, pastoring to be bothered with my inconsequential issues. I’d be happy to take your special test, though.
My pastor has more important things to do than this sort of thing – you know, like pastoring. I won’t bother him with my inconsequential issues, nor yours.
Mike Viscome: Like satan, some people just hate the words of God. They want to be their own authority. Bro. Ray
Lori: Sing something for us. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: I need facts. Have your pastor write me at raymcintire@ezekiel3.com. I have a special test for him. Bro. Ray
Jeremy: Huh? Bro.Ray
Anonymous: Careful now, you might be revealed for who you are. Bro. Ray
James 1:19-21 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
The anger you display toward people who want to do THE SAME THING as the KJV translators is not going to advance Godliness in them or in yourself! You are neither being slow to anger nor are you receiving with meekness God’s engrafted Word.
Greg: Yes there are Jews in Israel that cannot read Ancient Hebrew and people like you, here, who cannot either. As for trapping your pastor, a pastor who passes himself off as being able to understand ancient Hebrew and Greek better than the translators is one who set the trap for himself. When a pastor lies about his abilities and credentials he has already broken that trust. Paul said to mark those who cause divisions. Paul said to study to show yourself approved unto God. Jesus said to search the scriptures, perhaps you missed this in the Greek or Hebrew. I do not believe for a minute that you love your KJV, if you did you would believe it and not have an itch (as in itching ears) to try and correct it or find it incomplete. By the way where do you study the Ancient languages and with whom? How were you able to find a copy of the originals when Jesus and Paul did not have access to them?
I can! However, it would be pointless to do so here, since there is no proof that I didn’t look them up. There are Jews in Israel who cannot read Ancient Hebrew. This test doesn’t even make logical sense. Nice try, though. There are much better ways to defend the KJV.
“Trapping” your pastor, liberal or otherwise, is the opposite of what Jesus would do. When the Pharisees tried to trap Him, He answered their questions with ease. Which does this test seem more like?
If a person had a pastor who was not liberal, and tried this test with them because they heard him referenced a Hebrew or Greek word, the trust that was between them would be shattered. Paul said to study the Scriptures, which were not well translated in Timothy or Titus’ native languages. They would have had to study the Original Languages. There is nothing wrong with studying these. I have done it and I love my KJV. I will continue to study these dead languages, into which no taskbar can translate this blog. Even if it could, there are words on it which were not invented yet in those languages.
A good point, Lori. Even if someone could read the individuals words of this blog translated into Greek or Hebrew, that doesn’t mean they’d be able to make sense of them as sentences or thought-units, because the syntax and dialect would (I imagine) be significantly different across the language barrier.
Given the advent of advanced language tools, it’s not difficult for a modern biblical scholar to know Koine Greek and biblical Hebrew at least as well, if not better, than the 1611 translators. This isn’t to suggest that the 1611 translators didn’t have a sufficient knowledge of the languages, but to suggest that scholarship stopped advancing these past 400 years is to insult the innate ability God gave all humans to learn and grow.
Also, since my “liberal” pastor teaches classes on Hebrew and regularly consults the Greek in his sermon preparation, I’m confident he could recite both alphabets with ease – and probably to song. But since you don’t know him, you’ll have to rely on my say-so on the matter.
There is more to translating language than a simple word for word translation. You must understand the culture, the context etc.. Even as an Opera Singer, who sings in many languages I know this..Let alone the scholars who spend a lifetime in Biblical Language Study. It’s rather like you owning a scalpel…just because you know how to cut with it, does not mean you are a surgeon…
“You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink” I am a King Jameser,1611 all the way ,but after hard lessons in trying to convince folks of the 1611 I truly believe GOD has to show them.Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it:
Jeremy: I still contend wit modern preachers claiming to know the ancient languages better than the 1611 translators. Here’s a another simple test you can give your favorite liberal preacher. Ask them to recite the alphabet in Greek or Hebrew. Get back to me on that. Bro. Ray
You do recognize, of course, there’s a significant difference between Koine Greek and modern Greek, yes? As well as biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew?